Mosque but Not Chruch at Ground Zero ?

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Permalink Reply by Laura Hawthorne on September 8, 2010 at 9:19pm

This is definately a very contraversial topic to discuss. I pray there will be peace around Ground Zero.
I pray this issue will be resolved with respect for Americans.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Engle on September 12, 2010 at 3:57pm

The destoyers of the twin towers are not the same people who want to build a mosque, even though both are Muslims. We must remember that Americans are not just Christians-we are also Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists and agnostics. There is no reason, that commercial land should not used for a mosque and/or church. The important thing for us as believers is to demonstrate forgiveness in every aspect of our lives. We must show the Kingdom of God through all of our actions and with those around us. Christ said, "My Kingdom is not us this world" and we should not try to make the United States or anywhere else "God's Kingdom". We must all pray for peace and practice the peace of God in our lives, but at the same time we know that because of sin, peace will not reign on this earth until Christ's Kingdom is fully established. It's fine to feel patriotic and a loyalty to one's country, but we need to be careful as Christians, that we do not place our country in greater or equal importance to our faith. The truth of the Gospel is the same for all peoples of this world, and it is only through our individual responses in faith and obedience, that we can truly make this world a better place.

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Permalink Reply by Laura Hawthorne on September 13, 2010 at 4:12pm

Rich, very well said.

Richard Engle said:

The destoyers of the twin towers are not the same people who want to build a mosque, even though both are Muslims. We must remember that Americans are not just Christians-we are also Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists and agnostics. There is no reason, that commercial land should not used for a mosque and/or church. The important thing for us as believers is to demonstrate forgiveness in every aspect of our lives. We must show the Kingdom of God through all of our actions and with those around us. Christ said, "My Kingdom is not us this world" and we should not try to make the United States or anywhere else "God's Kingdom". We must all pray for peace and practice the peace of God in our lives, but at the same time we know that because of sin, peace will not reign on this earth until Christ's Kingdom is fully established. It's fine to feel patriotic and a loyalty to one's country, but we need to be careful as Christians, that we do not place our country in greater or equal importance to our faith. The truth of the Gospel is the same for all peoples of this world, and it is only through our individual responses in faith and obedience, that we can truly make this world a better place.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Vijay Kumar D Velugu on September 15, 2010 at 12:26pm

Hello Dear Richard. I have a question. Is America one Nation under God or God's ?

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Permalink Reply by Richard Engle on September 19, 2010 at 3:41pm

That is a good question, and another one which could be quite controversial. I have been thinking and praying about the way I respond to this. My answer to this question is "No". Contrary to what many people might want to believe, I do not believe America is "One nation under God" or "God's". We have been blessed by a strong Constitution which provides for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and we enjoy great freedoms under our Constitution, however, any earthly kingdom or government can not be "God's", because it is of this world. God's Kingdom can only be manifested in our response of love, compassion, and obedience as servants of Christ's Kingdom. Most times, the things we are called to do as believers are contrary to the forces of any earthly government, regardless of where that government is located. The United States, or any government, is focused on power "over" people, and this power is always abused in some fashion, because of sin. No government since Old Testament Israel was ever granted the status of "God's Kingdom", and I believe that ended when Jesus came. We have a responsibility to abide by the laws of our government, inasmuch as they do not conflict with our responsibilities as new creations in "God's Kingdom", which calls for us to "love our enemies", and "pray for them that persecute you". We must exhibit this power of God's love in each of our individual lives, as much as God gives us the strength and wisdom to do so. Too many Christians, want to claim "God and Country", but I do not see that as biblical. They are not equal, the liberty we have in Christ can not be compared to the liberty we have from living in this country. We have many brothers and sisters in Christ throughout the world, and I do not believe that God has granted any higher status to American Christians than to those in his kingdom who happen to live in India, Swaziland, Ukraine, Bolivia, or Japan. This is not to be construed as "unpatriotic", it is to me the reality of what the Bible teaches. For further reading on this, I recommend a book by Gregory A. Boyd "The Myth of a Christian Nation - How the Quest for Political Power is Destroying the Church".

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Vijay Kumar D Velugu on September 19, 2010 at 4:16pm

Hello Dear Richard. Great to hear from you. 1. Has not God seperated Isreal from other Nations and given them the Land of Cannan? Dont you think the early settlers who planted the Cross on Virgina beach costs and dedicated it to Jesus should not that commitment to Lord be honoured ? 2. Off course there is no room for hatered in Christianity but as the Bible Demands " Be ye seperate sayeth the Lord" Is there a need to compromice with other faiths? Today where Churches were the mosques are coming up and so hindu temples !~ Has not God punished Isreal when they did according to the coustoms of pagans and not according to God's Law ? Is not the present America now different in spirit in the last 30 years compared to what it was over 360 years ?


Richard Engle said:

That is a good question, and another one which could be quite controversial. I have been thinking and praying about the way I respond to this. My answer to this question is "No". Contrary to what many people might want to believe, I do not believe America is "One nation under God" or "God's". We have been blessed by a strong Constitution which provides for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and we enjoy great freedoms under our Constitution, however, any earthly kingdom or government can not be "God's", because it is of this world. God's Kingdom can only be manifested in our response of love, compassion, and obedience as servants of Christ's Kingdom. Most times, the things we are called to do as believers are contrary to the forces of any earthly government, regardless of where that government is located. The United States, or any government, is focused on power "over" people, and this power is always abused in some fashion, because of sin. No government since Old Testament Israel was ever granted the status of "God's Kingdom", and I believe that ended when Jesus came. We have a responsibility to abide by the laws of our government, inasmuch as they do not conflict with our responsibilities as new creations in "God's Kingdom", which calls for us to "love our enemies", and "pray for them that persecute you". We must exhibit this power of God's love in each of our individual lives, as much as God gives us the strength and wisdom to do so. Too many Christians, want to claim "God and Country", but I do not see that as biblical. They are not equal, the liberty we have in Christ can not be compared to the liberty we have from living in this country. We have many brothers and sisters in Christ throughout the world, and I do not believe that God has granted any higher status to American Christians than to those in his kingdom who happen to live in India, Swaziland, Ukraine, Bolivia, or Japan. This is not to be construed as "unpatriotic", it is to me the reality of what the Bible teaches. For further reading on this, I recommend a book by Gregory A. Boyd "The Myth of a Christian Nation - How the Quest for Political Power is Destroying the Church".

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Permalink Reply by Richard Engle on September 26, 2010 at 8:20pm

My dear brother in Christ, sorry it takes me so long to respond. It's because of my work schedule during the week, and ministry activities on weekends, I do not have much extra time for discussions such as these. However, I do not want you to think that I do not have responses to your questions!
Yes, in the Old Testament, God did separate Israel and gave them the land of Canaan. However, isn't the church of Jesus Christ the new Jerusalem, represented by Mount Zion? I do not believe that because people came from Europe and planted a cross on the shores of North America, that it is a "claim for God". While that was certainly a noble thing to do, and well-intentioned on their part, this again has to do with trying to establish an authoritative position based on power as the world sees things, not necessarily as being submissive servants of the Kingdom of God. Unfortunately, the actions of those that came from Europe to the "New World" failed greatly in their efforts to show the true mercy and love of Christ, by subjecting the Native Americans to give in to their greed and desire for land and money. This was followed soon after by bringing slaves and continuing to persecute those who got in their way. This is all about human nature, and not about the Kingdom of Christ. So my answer is that "no, we have no responsibility to honor the planting of the cross in the New World". Our responsibility is to show the love of Christ to others in was that are different from how the world expects. It was true then, and it is still true today. If our mark as Christians is no different from what the world expects, how effective is it? That is why I believe the Church has been ineffective in so many ways - because we are so preoccupied with trying to tell other people how they should live, rather than living out the life that Christ has called us to live. That is exactly what Jesus calls us to do by being "separate from the world". We are called to be "separate" from the world. It means living on this earth, but living in such a way that people recognize that we are not focused on using earthly power that only the world knows. Instead, we rely on the power that Jesus Christ gives us to live transformed lives as Jesus taught. We may not like what changes are occuring in this country. There are a multitude a reasons-one of the major reasons is the advances in communication and technology and globalization over the last thirty years. The perception of the United States as a "Christian" nation certainly depends on who one is talking with. Yes, the US has done many good things through the years, but the nation as a whole has not served the KIngdom of God the way that Jesus spoke of. Praise God for those Christians that represent the Kingdom of God in a way that shows what God's Love is all about. It certainly is not about domination, greed, abundance, and excess. It is about loving your enemy and giving sacrifically to those who are in need, even if they do not agree with you. "Who is my neighbor?" "Love your neighbor as yourself." Jesus showed us who our neighbors are through the story of the Good Samaritan. The Samaritans were not just people the Jews refused to associate with, they were "hated" by the Jews. That is the love that Christ calls us to-and it can be very painful from a worldly perspective....

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